Comments on: Is Flash evil? No, but Flash-based sites can be a marketing nightmare. http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/ web • content • marketing • navigation • seo • social media Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:09:04 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Here’s how one web designer deals with negative comments « Online Community Strategist http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-20275 Here’s how one web designer deals with negative comments « Online Community Strategist Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:04:38 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-20275 [...] there but ignore it. I recently had a particularly negative comment on a blog entry I wrote, “Is Flash evil? No, but Flash-based sites can be a marketing nightmare. ” I knew this would be a controversial topic, especially for the Flash designers, but I was also [...] By: Heidi http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-17511 Heidi Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:56:44 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-17511 <p>Artful Dodger<br /> Great reminder about keeping .fla and .psd files. I'll sometimes copy them over to a directory on the Web server as well as a redundant back-up--or just to make sure the client has a copy of them if they are hosting their site on their own account. I agree about using Flash selectively. There can be many places where it's appropriate, but it is much easier to optimize when it is just part of a site rather than the bulk of a site.</p> <p>Thanks about the heads up on the space in the Twitter address. It looks like it's primarily happening to my username. Being logged in as admin I don't have to input it with each comment so I must have accidently typed a space when I first set it up. I'll poke around my settings to fix that. </p> Artful Dodger
Great reminder about keeping .fla and .psd files. I'll sometimes copy them over to a directory on the Web server as well as a redundant back-up--or just to make sure the client has a copy of them if they are hosting their site on their own account. I agree about using Flash selectively. There can be many places where it's appropriate, but it is much easier to optimize when it is just part of a site rather than the bulk of a site.

Thanks about the heads up on the space in the Twitter address. It looks like it's primarily happening to my username. Being logged in as admin I don't have to input it with each comment so I must have accidently typed a space when I first set it up. I'll poke around my settings to fix that.

]]> By: Artful Dodger http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-17414 Artful Dodger Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:52:36 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-17414 Oh and something completly of topic, there seems to be a space between the '@' and the commenters Twitter username which causes the link to be faulty. Can be easily sorted out I think anyway ;) ]]> By: Artful Dodger http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-17413 Artful Dodger Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:50:37 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-17413 I say everyone should keep their source files such as .FLA, .PSD etc. These can be very important in the future such asn changing them or optimizing them. I still think however that flash is harder to optimize than just plain text which is the reason why I tend not to use much of it if any on my websites. Maybe having small bits of flash like a flash menu or header is OK. By: Heidi http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-15217 Heidi Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:04:04 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-15217 <p>Artful Dodger, Greg and George,<br /> <p>I think the point that you're all exploring here is that Flash doesn't have to be bad for SEO, but it has to be implemented in the right way for it to support it. Some developers really get it and work on using Flash in a way that supports alternative content and better site indexing, while others may not even realize these are issues. </p> <p>elektrischkite, <br /> Your comment really gets to the heart of why we see a lot of sites with these problems. Designers experienced in one aspect of Flash development, may not be skilled in some of the tools and techniques that can be used to aid accessibility, usability and SEO. Or they may not really be aware that these are issues that need to be addressed.</p> <p>And as you so rightly point out this becomes an even bigger problem down the road, when changes need to be made to keep up with current technology. In addition to version changes as you describe we saw this happen a few years ago when Internet Explorer changed the way they processed <object>, <embed> and <applet> due to the <a href="http://www.devx.com/webdev/Article/30154" rel="nofollow">lawsuit between Microsoft and Eolas</a>. If developers didn't <a href="http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2007/04/19/embedding-flash-objects-for-internet-explorer/" rel="nofollow">change the way they embedded the Flash files</a> then IE users would get a pop up box that they had to click to view the Flash element. </p> <p>Another common problem involves switching designers. I've had people ask me to edit things that were created years ago. But many times the client only has the .swf file, they don't have the original .fla. Without the working file it can be almost impossible to update without starting from scratch. I have tried some programs that sort of unpack .swf files into .fla files but the resulting files are usually more trouble than they're worth. </p> Artful Dodger, Greg and George,

I think the point that you're all exploring here is that Flash doesn't have to be bad for SEO, but it has to be implemented in the right way for it to support it. Some developers really get it and work on using Flash in a way that supports alternative content and better site indexing, while others may not even realize these are issues.

elektrischkite,
Your comment really gets to the heart of why we see a lot of sites with these problems. Designers experienced in one aspect of Flash development, may not be skilled in some of the tools and techniques that can be used to aid accessibility, usability and SEO. Or they may not really be aware that these are issues that need to be addressed.

And as you so rightly point out this becomes an even bigger problem down the road, when changes need to be made to keep up with current technology. In addition to version changes as you describe we saw this happen a few years ago when Internet Explorer changed the way they processed <object>, <embed> and <applet> due to the lawsuit between Microsoft and Eolas. If developers didn't change the way they embedded the Flash files then IE users would get a pop up box that they had to click to view the Flash element.

Another common problem involves switching designers. I've had people ask me to edit things that were created years ago. But many times the client only has the .swf file, they don't have the original .fla. Without the working file it can be almost impossible to update without starting from scratch. I have tried some programs that sort of unpack .swf files into .fla files but the resulting files are usually more trouble than they're worth.

]]> By: elektrischkite http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-15209 elektrischkite Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:05:19 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-15209 Clearly, this betrays a schism between the designers and developers. Given the complexity of the Flash, there are designers who may attempt code and developers who may attempt design, but there are only a very few elite that can do both with any elegance. It's a concern of mine that Flash sites create complexity for the client, when they migrate their site, or find out their site code is deprecated and need to shell out for updated Action Scripting. This aspect of superannuated Flash sites authored in Flash 5 that, to the best of my knowledge, cannot be updated in any way and must be completely re-authored. By: » Your Flash site won’t seem so cool if visitors can’t use it. | Web Development Blog: Heidi Adams Cool http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-12815 » Your Flash site won’t seem so cool if visitors can’t use it. | Web Development Blog: Heidi Adams Cool Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:12:42 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-12815 [...] few weeks back, in Is Flash evil? No, but Flash-based sites can be a marketing nightmare, I discussed some of the potential problems Flash-based sites can create in regard to search [...] By: amymichelin (amymichelin) http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-10036 amymichelin (amymichelin) Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:22:09 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-10036 <strong>Twitter Comment...</strong> Is flash evil? [link to post] - Posted using Chat Catcher ... Twitter Comment... Is flash evil? [link to post] - Posted using Chat Catcher ...]]> By: George http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-9854 George Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:02:41 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-9854 I want the site to do well in organic searches, which usually entails a unique page for each part, and links between parts, yet I don't want the site to load a new Flash swf each time the user goes to a new section of the site. By: Greg Bowen http://www.heidicool.com/blog/2009/05/26/flashevil/comment-page-1/#comment-9540 Greg Bowen Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:30:42 +0000 http://www.heidicool.com/blog/?p=352#comment-9540 mmm not so much. It is all about how you set up your Flash site. It is the developers choice as to whether a Flash site is one or fifty pages. And as far as SEO, if you use swfobject to embed, you not only deliver alternate content for non-Flash users, you can load tons of great SEO. With proper use of XML, you can make sites easily updated. It is not like HTML/CSS where you can just swap out a style sheet - but the benefits outweigh in many instances - especially boutique sites.